Building India’s Sports Ecosystem & the Road to the 2036 Olympics: A Conversation with Rishabh Jaiswal

Introduction:

India’s sports landscape is evolving rapidly, but questions remain—are we doing enough to build a strong athlete development ecosystem? With the nation setting its sights on hosting the 2036 Olympics, the conversation is no longer just about participation, but about creating a sustainable pathway for athletes, integrating science and technology, and ensuring long-term success on the global stage.

In this podcast episode, host Ami sits down with Rishabh to unpack the realities of Indian sports today:

• The gaps in grassroots development

• The role of CSR and private investment

• The difference between sports science and sports technology

• And most importantly, what India must prioritize to prepare not just as hosts, but as serious Olympic contenders by 2036.

  
  

Read on for the full conversation 👇

Ami (Host): Okay, perfect. Welcome to Sports CTO Talks. In this series, we will be connecting with industry leaders from sports and technology, where we will simplify sports and technology for you all. I am Amin, your guide on this journey through amazing mind of sports tech leaders. We will dive deep into innovations, understanding the industry, from AI to cloud,from cyber security to sustainability. If it is sports tech, we are talking about it. Today, we have a very interesting guest with us, Mr. Rishabh Jaiswal. He is an alumnus of IIM Ahmedabad and the Doon School Dehradun. Rishabh founded Sporting Ethos as India's first privately owned sports science and medicine center in 2012. and a decade later founded Athlete First Foundation to further the efforts towards scientific athlete development in India. Rishabh has been steadily building the foundation towards a scientific approach towards health, fitness and performance areas in the Indian society with Athlete First Foundation and his aim is to take Indian sports to a well-functioning unit from ground up to all the way to excellence. Sporting Ethos was founded in 2012. It is a leading sports and healthcare company specializing in sports science and medicine, offering expert solutions in athlete development, post surgical rehabilitation and corporate high performance. And Athlete First Foundation was founded with the main aim of improving the efficiency of Indian sporting ecosystem by helping really athletes achieve high performance, longevity and a seamless transition to life after sports through scientific athlete management. We welcome you, Rishab, to the podcast.

Rishabh (Guest): Thank you, Ami. Thank you for having me. Today he would be talking about, you know, how India is creating future champions. He would be talking about grassroots level sports and how we can aim from grassroots to gold.

Ami (Host):So Rishab, my first question to you is, you know, like what inspired you to build grassroots development into the sports in India and how do you envision contributing to the Indian sports ecosystem?

Rishabh (Guest): Right. I mean, so I think where it kind of started was I was always a sports buff. I was passionate about sport. I was at a boarding school and there also we played a lot of sports. So it is something which, you know, I, as I said, I was always passionate about when I was about to complete my IIM Ahmedabad, you knowmanagement degree. I was thinking about doing something of my own, but I had to find something which I felt was meaningful and purposeful for me. So while working you know in the medical devices industry after after IIM, I stumbled upon sports science. And then I have looked into it at that time, even cricket, which is kind of the sport which has the maximum facilities, even our elite cricketers, Indian team cricketers were going abroad for their rehabilitation. So that was the sports medicine part. But when I looked into it further, sports medicine was just one aspect of sports sciences, which includes your exercise physiology, your psychology, along with injury management, your nutrition. So all these things, biomechanics, everything falls together. So as I started doing more research, as I started visiting centers across the country, I quickly realized that this entire ecosystem, while we have the talent, this entire ecosystem which can actually help an athlete with their performance,is was largely lacking and still is kind of you know coming up even now after a decade or so so I think that was the problem I really wanted to solve and I felt that although this is going to take a long long time we were 20 years back you know compared to the to the western world when we started we are still probably 12 to 15 years behind but you know that's something I thought will be I can kind of invest you know my efforts into so that's how the journey began.

Ami (Host):Okay so like you know what do you do likehow is athlete at the center and like you know what are the activities the company does.

Rishabh (Guest): Right, so just I think I missed answering your previous part of your question also. I mean how we are looking to contribute to overall athlete development in Indian sports is very simple. You know at the end of the day the highest stakeholder, the biggest stakeholder in in sport is the athlete. So why there are other you know elements which areextremely important like infrastructure and finances and all of that. At the end of the day, the athlete has to be developed well and where we are facing a problem is although we have a lot of talent, they are not getting the right guidance to go up to the highest level and therefore only a very small percentage of athletes are going up right to the elite level. Now what happens here obviously we have a physical facility in Delhi and we just upgraded and we set up Delhi NCR's first center of excellence in December. 2024. So the process here is very simple. Whenever an athlete comes to us, we basically profile them fully in terms of measuring their physical fitness, analyzing their nutrition, what is their mental you know kind of sports psychology assessment, their different you know assessments for that, their biomechanics and one key thing which gets missed even at the elite level is what is the workload and recovery management because that I thinkIs actually one of the biggest contributors to burnout in Indian sport. So we take all of that in and then you know we set goals based on where the athlete is at and you know try to you know cover each of them, set specific areas which the athlete can work on and then we keep working on it in incremental and progressive fashion at the facility. Of course we have the entire team of experts. So because everything is interdependent, it doesn't work in silos. So strength and conditioning, you know, sports physiotherapy, sports nutrition, sports psychology, all of them are interrelated. If you are injured, your strength and conditioning will not happen. Your workload would go down South. Your nutrition will have to change accordingly. You may go through centers, you know. certain mental states in terms of anxiety or fear of having the injury again or just you know when am I going to get back. So it has to work in an integrated fashion. So we have all the experts in-house and everything is you know kind of looked at in that possible manner. So that's how we work. We measure and then you know it's an individual level thing to counsel the athlete, counsel the coaches, counsel the families and the support system that why a scientific approach is going to lead to long-term results and not just we focus on short-term rankings andWhile it is important, you have to look at the long term.

Ami (Host):Absolutely. So like I just want to understand, you know, as you are working into the industry, like what are the awareness and how can you spread awareness about organizations who are working for athletes to to reach, you know, to the grassroots level so they can reach to you at the end of the day.

Rishabh (Guest):Yeah, I mean that's that's that's something we are still trying to solve. I think the biggest kind of biggest focus has always been on education and creating awareness. About why this is important and then in terms of reaching out to organizations and now there are a handful of organizations with this approach, maybe around 8:00 or 9 companies and centers across the country which do similar work such as ours is that you know I think. All these centers require, you know, they put in a lot of CapEx. If they're good centers, they have got the experts with the right qualifications. So it comes at a decent cost to run such facilities. It is not easy, especially in what what happens is that. People tend to kind of bucket it into, OK, it's a physiotherapy center or it's a fitness center when you're trying to run a combination of everything. So for example, let's say the strength and conditioning which we provide, the ratio of a trainer to athlete is 1 is to two. Now to be able to work with that model is not very easy. So even if one is getting the athletes to reach out, that can happen through social media and campaigns, which is fine. But at the end of the day, how many athletes are able to afford that is the biggest question. You know As As a private limited company, how many athletes' progress or work can you subsidize or discount? Because you have to you know obviously run the show and then keep adding value to it. So the fact of the matter is that Indian sport,relies on CSR, Indian athletes rely on CSR, very few athletes have the means and the funds to be able to afford it. But again, if you ask any athlete you know at the grassroots who are talented that what is it that will help you reach the highest level, they would say the financial support, which is true, but it is not the entire picture. Because unless you have this scientific support, unless you have the other kind of guidance, the right coaching, the advanced coaching support, justthe financial support alone will not help. So I think where we are currently as a country, private sector alone or government alone is very difficult for for us to be able to help athletesat a at a larger scale and at a higher efficiency to progress from the grass root all the way to the elite level. That's where corporate CSR comes in. That's where you know and then with that you can start creating more awareness and you can start you know kind of serving more athletes. So that's that's what the reality is today.

Ami (Host):Absolutely. So like I'll take the CSR questions little later in the podcast. Like there are a lot ofprograms going on in India like Kilo India, target all like the tops and they play a pivotal role these days into identifying athletes or grassroot level athletes. So how how does that work? Like you know, is it beneficial? Is it not beneficial? Is it helping the athlete at the end of the day?

Rishabh (Guest):Definitely, I mean it is beneficial, but at the same time,I'm I'm someone who's always in favor of quality than quantity. So as far as TOPS is concerned, it's an elite level program and some upcoming pre elite level athletes are also covered in TOPS. Most of the TOPS funding happens again through CSR and through PSU CSR. But it's meant for the people. It's a target Olympic podium scheme. So if you see someone capable of qualifying for the Olympics or doing well at the Olympics, that's what TOPS is meant for and they are doing a great job. The only thing is that TOPS becomes a cyclicalKind of a, you know, fund. So closer to the Olympic years like this time around we had the Asian Games and the Olympic cycles clubbed in together back-to-back. Otherwise it's a two year gap. So the funding was sufficient and there were decent number of athletes. But if you look at the immediate tops. Quota, I think a lot of athletes have been dropped because the budget has been dropped. So again, it's funding dependent, but TOPS definitely helps a lot of athletes get the right facilities. My personal take on that would be that yes, we are sending a lot of people abroad for the right kind of coaching and support through TOPS, but hopefully in the time to come, a lot of this happens within India. That's that's what we would like to see. As far as Halo India is concerned I think in terms of events, in terms of awareness, in terms of participation definitely athletes can go and participate and and you know try because no athlete if there is only one or two competitions where you can do well or lets say if you don't do well at the nationals or your main state event you have nothing to show on your CV and it's difficult to climb up the ladder. So Halo India does give you you know the different Halo India events whether they are sports centric or gender centric or even the para Halo India which happened recently they do give an additionalplatform for athletes to be able to showcase their hard work. So that way it is good. The only thing is when we look at it from a scientific background and that is not only Kelo India, I think in terms of justChoosing the number of competitions when you are playing the competition is very important because there is something called as periodization which basically means having different seasons across the calendar. And when you have an off season you are not playing competitions but you are going back and working on refining your skill, working on improving your physical fitness significantly. You have to give a window into all of those things regularly otherwise you will get stagnated. So it's very important I think at the individual athlete level and the coach level to take a callI need to skip certain competitions because again, if you don't do that, then you are kind of doing a lot of competitions. You're not learning and let's say you pick up an injury, you're spending the offseason nursing that injury rather than improving your physical fitness level significantly. So just being a little wary in terms of not just Halo India, but not just like participating in too many events. because you don't have time to improve. So that is my only kind of issue with decision making when it comes to participating. But Khelo India is a platform I think and it's not just events, they also have Khelo India schemes and they have tie ups with academies where they provide you know some kind of support. But my personal reading when I because even with the foundation and otherwise I interact with hundreds of athletes every year is that I think it needs to kind of become more structured and it needs more cohesion. But the intent and the and the mindset is there to be able to deliver that. But I think we've got some way to go when it comes to the Khelo India academies to function as as proper units.

Ami (Host):Absolutely. So like you know when you we are talking about this like how can young athletes be involved into various type of competitions. It can be at school level or you know when. It is during their youth and how to nurture and ensure that they are playing for a longer period of time.

Rishabh (Guest):Yes, so. One of the things we follow in principle is something called as the LTAD model, which is the long-term athlete development model, which started in Canada in the early 2000s. Now LTAD also has its pros and cons, but principles we have taken from that. So the long-term athlete development model says that based on the age, and of course you have to individualize it as per the athlete, because if you have a precocious talent, you can't justrely on age alone they may be ahead of their age and certain athletes will bloom later. But what it basically says is that you will have to introduce the athlete to multiple sports not focus too much on one sport otherwise you know only one certain muscle groups are getting used or mentally you are getting fatigue. Slowly and steadily as you are growing up your workload per week increases, your training to competition ratio would change. Initially you are spending more time in training and less time in competition. As you are progressing because you built your base you can spend moretime and competition. So there are different phases and you have to be able to appreciate and go through that. So let's say if someone likes, I think at the end of the day, even not just at the grassroots level or at the you know 10 to 15 age group level, but even at the elite level, it's all about enjoyment. If you are not enjoying something, then it is very difficult and that applies to all of us. The only thing is when a child is 10-12 years old, the pure excitement of participating in the sport is their main focus. But as they are growing up, we have to also understand that they are going through adolescence, they want to have a social life, they want to have their own me time and it needs to be very well balanced. so that they can go on for a longer period of time. I'll just give you an example and I can I can actually say that with a lot of conviction that in 80-85% of lot of racket sport academies, 10-11 year olds are spending 20-25-30 hours per week of training. Whereas the rule of thumb is that number of hours of supervised trainingPer athlete under the age of 16 should not exceed the age of the athlete per week. So if you have an 11 year old, you should not be training doing supervised training for more than 10 hours. Even if it is five days a week, you're saying you know two hours a week and even in there there's a primary sport. So you should not be specializing in a sport, which means you should not be spending more than 80% of your time in one sport. So 80% of those 10 hours only 8 hours and one or two hours you should be doing some other strength and conditioning or some other sport, right? And we're talking about 25 to 30 hours. Now again, if the precocious tolerant talent may be able to do 13 or 14 hours, you also have to look at from a nutritional standpoint. A 40 year old boy, a 40 KG boy or girl whose nutrition requirement is, let's say. who's playing you know six hours a day is around 22, 2300, 2400 calories. That is probably our intake to maintain our weight. So how do you expect that child to be able to eat that much, consume that. So we are talking about performance, we are talking about rankings, but we are actually compromising on overall health growth in adolescence. So I thinkIf there is good talent, so there are two ends of the spectrum. If there is good talent, they obviously need to be nurtured. But if they are doing too much too soon, then it's a problem. On the other hand, if you don't have any access whatsoever to sport, then it's a problem because you will not be able to learn the skill. So I think a balance is very important, especially in metros and tier one cities where the infrastructure is there. I think that understanding needs to happen. So again, to answer your question briefly is thatAthlete should be given exposure, but at the same time guidance should be given and I'm actually all for regulatory, you know, kind of measures as well. So for example, anyone entering under 12 tournament, 10 to 12 tournament should not be playing more than six competitions or five competitions in a year. Right now, if you see a tennis player who's 11, 12 is playing at least, or a table tennis player, they're paying two competitions every month on an average. So they end up playing at least 15 to 20 competitions every year. They're traveling, they're missing school, you know it's it's not sustainable, it's not feasible, even if they're ranked one or two in the country or in the state. So you know that is where we have to be very careful as we kind of you know develop the talent.

Ami (Host):Absolutely. So, and India is a country where finances also matter. So I want to understand from you when you know you're meeting a number of athletes, coaches, companies, like you know how our parents you know playing a role into the finances, are they able to cope up or is it difficult and how is it?

Rishabh (Guest): It's very difficult. And probably 5% of the parents would be able toafford the fees required for coaching and travel etc. for 5-6 years, 7 years at a stretch. The moment you have more competitions, international competitions, you are again you know kind of compromised in terms of finances. And even when you are spending all of this, you don't have money to spend on the other things like sports sciences. Now a nutrition program, let's say, or a sports psychology program. That all is left for later that OK, once we reach the elite level then we will take it up because we don't have, we have limited finances. So we need to first pay for the coaching and we need to 1st pay for the travel. Right, so the priorities also. The other thing is the parents, parents are making a lot of sacrifices. People are quitting their jobs, staying full time, traveling full time with the athlete. People are shifting locations and their base to travel to to move to another city because a particular coach is good. And while those sacrifices obviously mean a lot and you know I think kudos to the parents, sometimes it takes a toll on families together as well becauseWhat you're doing in the process is you're actually putting all your eggs in one basket and there's a lot of pressure. A parent not working, travelling full time with the athlete and guess these days are very smart, right? I mean they're very mature. So even if a parent is not saying anything but you know and the whole mindset about winning and not process because if you put so much of an investment, you're always thinking about. winning. And a child can perceive the disappointment, even a small gesture of disappointment on a parent's face or body language. And then they start you know thinking otherwise. So it does take a lot of toll on families. It is not easy. So the the success stories we hear, we hear that the father sacrificed so much, the mother sacrificed so much. You know it is really tough. But there are so many other parents and so many other families who have also made exactly the same kind of you know, kind of sacrifices. But may have not been able to achieve in terms of, you know, the level of success as we define it in sports.

Ami (Host): So like I want to understand the ratio, you know, like when we were talking about CSR, now I want to, you know, merge these two things that how can CSR play a role into helping these athletes grow over the period of five years, seven years according to you and in a holistic manner. How can that help, right.

Rishabh (Guest): So first let me tell you, I mean. Excelling in sport will remain one of the biggest challenges. You compare it to an IAS entrance exam or an MBA entrance exam or you know getting into Harvard or whichever metric you want to apply. Excelling in sport is also very very tough to to reach the highest level. Even if you look at Division 1 athletes, which is the top level of athletes in the US. I think I don't exactly remember the percentage with less than 1% to make it to the highest level and division 1 is the top bracket. So we are looking at that numbers. Now, therefore, it is important that if you are trying to increase the chances of success, there are funds available for the development of an athlete from a younger age. what that does is also the amount of funding actually, let's say you are spending 1 CR on a tops programme or 2 CR on a tops programme on one athlete. That 2 CR can easily cover everything combined for 25 to 30 athletes every year. So and when you are investing in 30 athletes what you are doing is you are first giving them a chance to go to the next level. Second isIf this support is not there, chances of burnout of these 30 Axe is very high. I would say probably 2/3 of them would burnout in the next 1 or 2 years at the age of 14, 15 or 16. So you're helping them preserve. So what I'm looking at is, let's say out of 100, without the support, if 1 or 2 Axe are making it to the highest level, with this entire support, maybe 12 or 13 or 14 would make it to the highest level. And therefore,we need to have a long term success metric. The success metric for CSR or Impact cannot be whether the athlete has made it to the Olympics for one of medal or has played at the highest level. The long term success metric has to be is whether the athlete who participated in sport, who plied their trade in sport, uh did a good job, tried their best, went as high as they could, but eventually they are leading a very successfullife, healthy lifestyle even after sport. Because right now there is a negative vicious cycle which athletes experience. I mean we've heard all of our news of top athletes being jobless, not having any means, having health issues, health crisis. It's a lot of toll which athletes bodies and minds take. UhSo even if we are you know helping these athletes at the highest level, our responsibility is that long term they are they are successful lives and careers because that will create a positive cycle. When people see those examples, because a lot of parents in India still, while they are encouraging sports more, when they look at these examples, or even ex-athletes themselves, they would not want to put their children in sport. Given what they have experienced, because there is no money, there is no you know proper lifestyle, no job, the only option with all due respect is to become a coach and not everyone mayenjoy becoming a coach or may not excel at it also. So the idea is to equip them you know in terms of education, vocational training and help them transition. This is what I saw in Australia when I was researching for sporting ethos back in 2011-2012. So they have something called as career after sport and there is a proper module in all the Australian institutes ofsports sciences which is present there. So from day one they start ensuring that there is a career plan in place. Because let's say you have a you have an injury which you may not be able to recover from or you have a setback you may not be able to recover. What do you do then? So again, coming back to the main point, I think there have to be two metrics of success. One is short term, that yes, instead of two athletes, we are having 15-20 athletes, it is the highest level out of 100. And the other 70-80,are also doing very well in life. And they set the example, not just for people in sports, but people in other, you know, kids in other disciplines who want to take up journalism or you know some other you know profession, they feel that, okay, it is it is actually, you know they feel confident that I can make the choice of you know what I enjoy and pursue that career. So that's what you know we are trying to achieve.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. And like if I want to ask as a person, like you know, to understand CSR in detail, how can a company get involved with athletes? At what fronts? What can the company contribute to? How much can a company contribute to? I would like to understand that.

Rishabh (Guest): Yes, so obviously I think the CSR in sports was included in CSR back in 2011, 2012, 2013 around that time. So it is an important part. Still I think there are obviously a lot of companies, I think maybe around 200-300 companies who have started investing directly in sports. But I think how sport is still placedas a CSR impact, it's still kind of on shaky grounds because it is not rooted in the principal 7 or 8 CSR you know platforms as they are defined. So let's say rural, women, health, you know education. So So then sport seems like more of a luxury compared to these basic necessities. So, unless we are able to link the impact of sport, which is having to the society, to the youth, you know and also how inclusive it is in its nature. A para-athlete, let's just say who we support, who's from Junjhun village in Rajasthan, what kind of aspirations they can create in that village. has actually, it's a very you know soft kind of an impact. It's not a measurable impact per se, but it does impact the society at a higher level. So I think first of all, understanding that okay, it may not be in your core or thematic area as per definition in the past, but understanding how you could utilize the power of sport to create an impact at the societal level, some of it rooted to the platform, but some also at an aspirational level, how they can get into it, obviouslyIt can be at the grassroots level where more access and more facilities are being provided. I think a lot of companies are doing that in their own way. The problem obviously we are trying to solve is that every level of the pyramid needs to be met. So the company needs to choose which level I want to address. If you want to address grassroots, you want to address pre-elite. Elite, I don't think requires that much because there are a lot of takers already, but I think everything below elite, there are 3-4 stages which need to be supported so they can supportgroup of athletes, we usually have a program which is across different divisions. Let's say someone is returning to sport after surgery. There's a para-athlete program. There is an emerging sports program. New sports like climbing, rugby, fencing is still relatively new. The other is also there are infrastructural projects in sports, such as rehabilitation centers or sports science and sports medicine centers. It also falls in the purview of CSR in sports. So if a company wants to actually have a legacy where athletes can be serviced with these facilities, you know, so let's say that's what you know can happen, that if they are able to help build the infrastructure, companies like Sporting Ethos or other companies can actually run those centers and provide services at a subsidized level to a lot of athletes. So it can happen at an individual athlete or a group of athletes level. It can also happen at the infrastructural level. And yeah, I think it's justHow you are setting the metric for measurement of the impact? Because I do see a lot of companies and they have their own, you know, kind of criteria, but sometimes they see that, OK, how will helping these 20 or 25 or 30 RCS help in the larger scheme of things? But again, as I described that every athlete has the potential you know to create immense impact. We supported one Taekwondo athlete from Kashmir. And And you know the kind of aspiration she can develop for the state of Kashmir and the girls who are participating in sport, I think has huge potential and although it's one athlete. So I think the way we measure the impact needs to change the way we analyze and I hope the company heads, the CEOs, the CSR heads are able to look at it in thatright as well.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. So like it's a two-part question. Like when you were talking about the female in Kashmir, like, you know, what as a sporting industry, as a sports industry, are there any scholarships for women who are getting involved into sports? Are there any benefits or is government or private industry helping them to grow and evolve in the sports at the end of the day?

Rishabh (Guest): Okay, so do you mean women athletes or just women? Women athletes or women as a whole also? Yeah, so I think a lot of foundations who are there in sport right now are definitely encouraging women, women athletes particularly also because I think it's a part of the CSR agenda, but I also feel, I mean, like our our company is mostly run by women, right? So, and we've had majority of, you know, women athletes, girls who have actually, we have kind of provided services towards sportingAnd therefore even here like we have more than 50% of our scholarships are mandated to go to women athletes. So I think there are a lot of platforms. The only thing is that again the the guidance has to be 360 degree. It cannot just be money given or you know you go and visit the physio or you go and visit the nutritionist or you go and plan your travel. There has to be hand holding at a psychological level. At a women's health level, because that's a weight sports, combat sports, where you're losing, you know, you're losing seven, eight, 10% of your body weight for a fight. And we had this thing in Olympics as well. The toll it takes on women's bodies in the long term health is immense. So is there someone looking at that aspect and also counseling the, you know, the girl that, okay. While you're willing to give it all and, you know, lose weight in different ways, these are the implications on your reproductive health, on your hormonal health, on your overall health when you'll be 30405060. Let let the let the acid make the choice, but it has to be an informed choice. So it has to be while there are avenues and there are private, you know, players as well and NGOs as well who are definitely encouraging women in sport. But I just feel again, I think the depth of the intervention can definitely increase.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. And like, you know, how crucial is development of technology because every everything these days or in this,You know era, it's about technology. So how can sports and technology be combined and you know it can help our athlete or coach or sports as a whole, right.

Rishabh (Guest): So first of all, I was just wondering, you know, I think I'm glad you brought this up because a lot of people and I'm talking about people who are very influential, are investors and funders and. they are confusing sports science and sports technology. Correct. A faster shoe material or a faster swimsuit is not sports science, it is sports technology. Right. Sports science is this core discipline which I described in the beginning. So first of all we need to differentiate that. Sports science has its own place, sports technology has it. I think based on my experience, uhyou need the right people, you need the right infrastructure. Obviously you need the right athletes, coaches, all of that is needed. And you need equipment and all of that. But I think the key thing, which in any organization, and that is true even for athletes development and sports, is that the processes need to be followed. What I mean by processes is the communication, let's say. between an athlete and different stakeholders, whether it's the coach, whether it's the administration, the sports science team, that has to be effective, proactive, constant, over communication. These are all things we talk about in organizational behavior as well. So, technology can come in andWith AI etc. now I think it is much easier than me already implementing it at our organization although you know like scripting it at Google sheets level etc. is that if it can help with your communication, if it can help with having consistent processes. For example, if a review needs to be done with an athlete every six weeks, where are you maintaining that review? Are you doing it on pen or paper? Are you just setting reminders on your phone or is there an automated e-mail which will come every week to everyone in the ecosystem that you have this review or let's say workload and recovery management? which I touched upon. I think it's the make or break. Now, if an athlete is reporting on an online form, you know how much they played, what does they sleep, and then your wearables like this, the rings which are there in the market, they are capturing data. They are filling in that data. Now, how often are experts actually looking into that data and making sense of it and giving feedback? That is where technology automation can really help make quick decisions, proactive decisions before an injury becomes really big. can you kind of you know evaluate it and then start addressing it. So I think for me technology in sports in the Indian context has to do with being able to make the processes and the communication much more effective and touching upon all these points of course and that that would really help. The other part is of course I think equipment still like we have sourced most of our equipment from abroad and then there's a big duty on it and all of that and it's difficult for you know organizations like ours which are notyou know industry giants or government institutes to procure such equipment. And so therefore I think like IIT Madras is doing a lot of incubation and I feel other IITs such as the one in Delhi etc. should also you know kind of get, let's say you're making timing gates, sensors which basically help you measure how quickly you're going, they just you pass through them and the time is measured. We have enough brains to to be able to manufacture these and do it at a very good accuracy level. And that would really reduce the cost. So when you're talking about grassroots access, when you're measuring a 20 meter timing dash by stopwatch, that's a 10 meter dash which takes around let's say two and a half, three seconds for an athlete. If there is an inter-user variance of 0.3 seconds also, that's a 10% error. So what timing aids do is they actually measure it accurately. Now that is only accessible to a handful of people or a handful of companies the moment we build cheaper technology for measurements, equipment, etc inside of India. then it can reach out to the grassroots as well. And then we can start having more meaningful data and you know more meaningful integration. The government has used technology to kind of create databases. They are working on the age fraud thing also, for example, where you know softwares and technology is being used at large. But yeah, these are you know some of the use cases, but for me, the processes and the communication, automation and technology can help with that. I think that will be really, really key.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. So like, you know, what are the few challengesor it can be primary challenges you are facing or you are seeing in the sports industry, athletes, coaches or government as a whole or parents like including every whole ecosystem of sports. What are the few challenges you see that they are there, prominent are there and how can you know we rectify it or we can improve on it.

Rishabh (Guest): Yeah, I think because I'm in this industry, I mean, I I would say and I think otherwise also I think just we need to understand sport better, is what I would say. It's not like taking an exam. The more you keep you know revising midnight, early morning, the better you will remember. And even that is also not true if you're not sleeping properly or eating properly. But yeah, we look at it that way. If I can use in the end, then you know we'll get more marks the more we study. It doesn't happen like that in sport. The more you train,you know There is a U-curve, there is a you know law of diminishing returns which will kick in. We need to understand that first. We have to figure out what is the optimum workload, what is the optimum amount of training we need to do. And then that actually extrapolates to a long-term vision of sport. You have to go face by face, you have to keep improving. Right now, and we are a very result-centric society. what are the marks of kidney, blood test report, normal knee, even if it is high but it is within the range, we are okay. So we are we are very result centric. And what that does is that every time, no matter how how much a coach or a parent or any support system want to help the athlete, they are looking at whether they have reached the semi-finals, what was their timing, etc. But you have to say, okay, what is it on a daily basis that is in the athlete's control they could do in terms of their mobility. Which would help them improve so that eventually that will contribute to their timing. Right. So you have to look at the smaller controllables, the processes and our mindset need to shift that even if a person has won a tournament or won a match, they may have taken shortcuts and not applied the skills and strategy a coach might have asked them to and they may still have won. But they may not have followed the process of sleeping properly, measuring their hydration, warming up, cooling down, all those things they may not have followed. But we are OK if the person has won. We are not looking at the processes. So I think we need to start educating about processes. Obviously a scientific approach, obviously a long term approach, because we need to understand sport and every time there is a 14 year old like yesterday who becomes a sensation. Parents put a lot of pressure vicariously on their children and they start expecting a lot more. We have to be much more balanced as parents and definitely coach education is also very, very critical because unless the coaches, because they are the captains of the ship, sports science will remain a support system. We need to equip more and more coaches and that's also a part of you know our initiative where we are doing a coaches scholarship program. We were trying to up skill them and also groom them in a manner where they can produce athletes of the next generation in a more futuristic and long term fashion.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. So like you know as India it seems like you know we are bidding for 2036 Olympics. So according to you like. Like what are the requirements into the ecosystem where we need to develop? Because there are so many things, you know, from grassroots to the elite level, small infrastructure, huge infrastructure, there are so many things. So what are those things which need to be taken care of primarily?

Rishabh (Guest): I think infrastructure according to me is least of our challenges because we become very good at making infrastructure. We do it fast, we do it well. Of course they can be more efficient always, but I think that's that's something I'm not worried about and I think. While there's a lot of debate about whether where to spend, etc., I just feel that Olympics is actually a golden opportunity to streamline a lot of systems and processes. So if you look at Japan, if you look at the UK, if you look at China for that matter, the way, I'm not sure so much about Brazil, but the way they align their systems, their high performance systems. High performance system is basically something which is happening at the highest level in a consistent manner. Right. So each of their sports federations, the way they groom the Axis, the scientific approach, the process, everything we've spoken about in this gets aligned into those systems. It cannot only be infrastructure and logistical. And if we can approach it that way, I feel the next, you know, 8-10 years is a golden opportunity for us to skip. 2-3 steps, skip 8-9 years and and use the Olympics as a platform to establish this system. China for example used to be you know this place that we always heard about it that thousands of people are training and 5 kids will make it so it doesn't matter at least you have 5 Olympians or 5 gold medalists. But China is rapidly changing that approach. Now if you see the sports science setup and the amount of independence and the autonomy each discipline of sport has. We are hiring Indian SNC coaches and physios, 9-2-3 people who are really good andThey are being hired by China, so they are agnostic to who they are hiring. They are hiring from different parts of the world, and they have adopted a modern scientific approach to training their athletes. So I think the Olympic model, the Olympic platform, we should, yes, utilize it to advertise India and Indian sport to the world and build infrastructure, but I think it is a golden opportunity. But this would mean genuinely for a lot of people, together in a private-public partnership, rolling up their sleeves. Getting their hands dirty and going in depth. If we are going to talk about surface level stuff, then we will miss this opportunity of even hosting the Olympics and not being able to make the breakthrough as a sporting nation.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. I have a few more questions, but I'll ask you one last question.

Rishabh (Guest): Sure, sureyou know, what are a few takeaways from a decade or more than a decade of experience of yours into the industry? Like, you know, what are the few quick takeaways for the people listening to the podcast? I think the sports industry in India still has to see its sunrise. I am not sure how good a businessman I am. I have tried towork on a concept because I was passionate about it, I've tried to create a business out of it, but I'm trying to generate value in different ways and in sports and organically a lot of other things also we are doing for road traffic accident victims. Doing sports business in India is tough. There are reports which talk about it being a huge industry, but if you leave the fan engagement and the fantasy sports out of it, it is still a struggling industry. There are a lot of meaningful startupsThe good thing about this industry is a lot of passionate people have gotten into it. Because it's purely a passion thing, it's very difficult to do this business. But a lot of us are still grappling with our own problems. We are trying to survive, we are trying to make things happen, we are pivoting, and we are not able to collaborate with each other also. I think there has to be a supportive ecosystem, certain legacy businesses, I mean obviously organizations which have CSR, the government, but certain legacy businesses need to come in. And some of them have, but more legacy businesses need to come in and and try to work together with these stakeholders. Because you will have the financial backing to set up your own projects, but you will not find the passion and the grit among the several founders and co-founders in sports, even if you have all the infrastructure and the finances. So I think it'sTime that the government and certain legacy businesses, the 10/15/20 which exists in India, come together and equip the other, you know, ecosystems, the other startups, the other sports. companies to kind of work on it together and solve this problem. Sounds very idealistic, but I think even if it starts happening at a regional level or a city level, I think slowly and steadily in 1050, again, this is not going to happen overnight. When I started it, as I told you, for me it was a 40-50 year project to get at par. So we are only 12 years into it, but I do see it happening because I think again, the power of sport and the passion of the people involved, I think is going to drive it.

Ami (Host): Absolutely. Rishab, we'll move on to the next segment. That's a rapid fire question. I'll ask you a few. You'll have to be quick in answering.

Rishabh (Guest): OK. OKOKOne legend athlete who's inspired you. OK.

Ami (Host): Um see

Rishabh (Guest): I think before I answer this, I have to answer it quickly, but as a fan and now as a person working in the industry, my mindset is very different. So as a fan, I would say Rafael Nadal. But if I have to say in the industry, I mean, I know it sounds cliche, but I would say Virat Kohli for for the way he thinks, the way he talks, I think that really is very impressive. That's what all athletes, not just his fitness part, but the way he approaches his sport, his awareness, I think that's that's great.

Ami (Host): Okay, Khelo India, Topps or any other competition, name one if you have to pick.

Rishabh (Guest): Topps is not a competition. I would probably still say the nationals of each individual sport on its own.

Ami (Host): Okay, most underrated sport in India today.

Rishabh (Guest): Most underrated sport. I put probably I don't have one. I think there are a lot of I think everything is separate.

Ami (Host): OK, that I agree.

Ami (Host):OK, a state that that's nailing grassroots sports development.

Rishabh (Guest):I mean as far as the newspapers are concerned also Odisha but I think they have done good work. For sure Odisha I think they have taken, they have created an example for others.

Ami (Host):Okay. A sport you would love to see every school in India promote?

Rishabh (Guest):I would say the easiest to do it would be climbing. That would be interesting yeah.

Ami (Host):Wearables of video analytics, which tech has more game changing potential at grassroot level?

Rishabh (Guest):Yeah, I think we need to get away from hardware, so it will have to be sophisticated, easy video analytics.

Ami (Host):Okay. One tech tool you think every young athlete in India should be using?

Rishabh (Guest):Uh Probably something which monitors their heart rate or sleep.

Ami (Host):Okay. If you had to take Virat Kohli for dinner, where would you take him?

Rishabh (Guest):Uh I'll invite him home and have a good personal discussion.

Ami (Host):Okay. Perfect. The next is like, you'll have to answer this question into 30 seconds. Like, what is your understanding on role of AI? Because everything is AI these days into the sports segment.

Rishabh (Guest): Yeah. No, I think if the same applies to AI, what used to apply to fire at our times, it can be a good servant, but not a good master. I think there are definitely a lot of use cases where you can make life easier, you can make work easier, more efficient, more standardized. But I do see a lot of youngsters who will struggle in communicating effectively because of easy access to AI and conversations becoming automated.

Ami (Host): OhhThank you Rishabh for the amazing insights on grassroot level sports and how you know things can be managed from a micro level. Like you know your insights were helpful today on the podcast.

Rishabh (Guest):Thank you so much for having me. I also enjoyed it. I think the variety of questions you asked, we were able to kind of, uh you know I think I hope you were able to bring out a decent picture in front of everyone who's listening.

Ami (Host):Absolutely. So everyone let's stay connected on understanding of more of sports and technology. Please share this episode with your friends, families and the people who love sports and technology. We will meet next time in the next episode. Until then stay curious, stay inspired and keep exploring.